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Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients) 
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Post Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
Edit: Card tags fixed.
Edit: War Spikes -1, Cardinal Scelus -3, Evon Myerdeth -3 Amulet of Waking -1. Faith in Steel +3 Rellion Truebred +1, Well Supplied +3, Toren Yscar +1 .

Start:
Baron Bastein
2x Justinian
3x D'ilchant Keeper

Items:
1x Rellion TrueBred
1x War Spikes
1x Tome of Champions
1x Symbol of Kerebrus
1x Storm Brand
1x Sir Tython's Shield
1x Red Steel Gauntlets
1x Rage Collar
1x Medical Kit
1x Lunatic's Genius
1x Fiendish Plate
1x Epic Mantle
1x Bracer's of Ogre Power
1x Blood God's Basinet
1x Nodwick
1x Amulet of Waking

Characters:
1x Toren Yscar
3x Uthival Tremayne
3x Ghed Lionel
3x Charlotte D'ilchant

Actions:
3x Faith In Steel
3x Well Supplied
3x Meet at the Inn
3x Meditation
3x Contest Thy Title
3x Blood Oath (The second Blood oath that attaches to a character and then adds discarding a card in order to target an item equipped to the character

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Last edited by Magerdanu on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.



Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:55 pm
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Lava Shark
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
You included the "1x, 3x, etc." in the card tags, so none of them work.

-nihil

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Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:07 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
Nihilistiskism wrote:
You included the "1x, 3x, etc." in the card tags, so none of them work.

-nihil


Wrong. The link to the Baron works just fine.

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there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!

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Woodrow, your jank may have crossed the line this time.


Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:26 am
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
It's clever-ish. Turning a tank into a Paladin so he can use Stormbrand.

However, this deck is absurdly weak vs. Ranged blitz. Your starting army will not stand up to ranged attacks at all, and the Baron is kinda squishy out-the-gate, so you are depending on not facing ranged strikes and rolling well with the keepers to stay alive long enough to make him less squishy. I might recommend Balmtear's Potion to up your survivability. I'd also suggest losing Evon altogether, because your 4th level characters damn well better be worth it, and it's just too easy to disrupt your ranks with so few characters in the first place. Replacing him with Cardinal Bromin will likely win you more games.

Where's Toren?

I'm curious about the 3x Cardinal Scelus. Specifically, why? Moving around for item equipping? You don't have the army structure to support a lot of moving around. Furthermore, you won't be able to move backward with the Fiendish Plate.

I'd consider Well Supplied for a deck like this, since you have 1 or 2 very clutch items that are important, and the rest is an afterthought and filler. Getting your clutch items is the difference between winning and losing.

-nihil

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Darguth wrote:
I...agree...with Nihil

Arven wrote:
You are correct on all counts.

Yamauta wrote:
Thank you Nihil. That badass post was one of the most informative posts I've ever seen here...

Fintago wrote:
...Nihil...When someone puts a keyboard in front of you, you become the worst kind of person. I mean Christ.


Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
I forgot Toren... Woops.

The Cardinal is in there specifically so the Baron can get into the front rank without being stunned, Or so the Baron can surprise Blitz in the event of pulling two of him (I was tossing around the idea of a Rellion Truebred to increase his early game threat), in my experience stunning an Uber is the most efficient way to win the game, if Baron gets stunned out of the gate due to illegal ranks, his items are suddenly useless and all of his actions become dead hands. its a sort of first turn last ditch effort to promote his capacity to react, especially since all he really needs is time to become a threat.

Evon is in there because he is Unique, The Baron eats characters to stay alive so running three isn't going to be as detrimental, he also grants semi Permanent bonus's which can be useful, I do agree that Bromin would be better suited however.

That being said, Ranged strikes are definitely the bane of this deck

I agree with the Well Supplied and in hindsight am now thinking Faith in Steel as well, the Keepers might be replaced with Deverenian Courtier with a Keeper in the middle or just three courtiers.

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Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
Scelus is now unique.

Consider Black Sun Shieldman for the front rank. Ranged strikes hate him.

My favorite uber steed is Kringle's Sleigh. Atk & AC and the ability to move backwards.

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Richard Carter - 2002 (Scrub player), 2003 (undefeated Swiss with Kerebrus), 2004 (4th at KOHIT with Dezicrah), 2005 (Dragonlord & World Conquest Team), 2006 (Editor, PDT member, & Majeral runner), 2007 ( Medusan Lord, & Bobby Zebrowski's Hero), 2008 (Ghed Jaroslav, Soul of the Storm, 4e Design Team), 2009 (Soul of the Storm falls, Gixu the Jester rises), 2010 (Jernar Thanatoc falls), 2011 (Bobby Zebrowski's sloppy second Gixu), 2012 (Driver of Atu the Fallen)


Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
Kerebrus wrote:
Scelus is now unique.

Consider Black Sun Shieldman for the front rank. Ranged strikes hate him.

My favorite uber steed is Kringle's Sleigh. Atk & AC and the ability to move backwards.


Thanks for the update on Scelus.

Rellion Truebred vs Kingle's Sleigh, I would only be running the Truebred because of its order, discard a card for +6 atk to inflict an additional wound in a deck with expendable cards seems more prudent, the +2 AC is nice, however Baron wants to get wounded so more AC doesn't necessarily increase his survivability, Especially if straight Hit Points exchange other characters mostly on a 1-1 ratio. The other change I am considering would be Scales of the Storm instead of the Fiendish Plate.

It really depends on how crucial the Fiendish Plate turns out to be, while at the same the Scales are a highly situational card considering that Charlotte would have to be in play before I could equip the item.

The secondary problem Is I have not found a way to alleviate would be kill effects, Winter's Chill being the primary concern, Vorpal blade being the less immediate worry, considering it has some set up required before it becomes an immediate concern.

I will update the decklist.

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Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
You made a critically false statement:

"Batein wants to be wounded..."

:nonono:

Just because a character has the ability to remove wounds doesn't mean you want him wounded.

Just because a character has a neat ability revolving around being wounded doesn't mean you want him wounded.

Your better, overall gameplan is to build a deck that consistently does NOT fiddle with the "Wound me so I killz you!" game, and just plays it straight. You'll invariably get wounded, in which case, yay, you get to use some abilities, but it shouldn't be factored into your strategy.

The best thing about Deverenians is strike denial, so you should play to that strength, not ignore it because of a character ability.

You should also have Sir Serane Myerdeth in your deck to increase your level, and 1x Mother Deiane.

Also, Carter is correct: Rellion Truebred is crap, because, again, you're looking at your deck and saying "Redundancy! Huzzah! I can afford to discard things!" I call it the "Fool's Raziel Trap." It's where you start sacrificing efficiency in favor of redundancy or meta because you have one thing in your deck that requires or gets better through discarding. And when you don't draw that one thing? When the conditions don't fall? You have redundant crap and useless meta and you lose. Don't do that. Don't be a scrub. Build a good deck that DOESN'T want Bastein to be wounded and DOESN'T carry lots of redundancy to discard to his or other abilities. Build a good deck that wins on its own and look at Bastein's abilities as afterthoughts that may or may not come into play.

-nihil

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Darguth wrote:
I...agree...with Nihil

Arven wrote:
You are correct on all counts.

Yamauta wrote:
Thank you Nihil. That badass post was one of the most informative posts I've ever seen here...

Fintago wrote:
...Nihil...When someone puts a keyboard in front of you, you become the worst kind of person. I mean Christ.


Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:10 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
Nihilistiskism wrote:
You made a critically false statement:

"Batein wants to be wounded..."

:nonono:

Just because a character has the ability to remove wounds doesn't mean you want him wounded.

Just because a character has a neat ability revolving around being wounded doesn't mean you want him wounded.

Your better, overall gameplan is to build a deck that consistently does NOT fiddle with the "Wound me so I killz you!" game, and just plays it straight. You'll invariably get wounded, in which case, yay, you get to use some abilities, but it shouldn't be factored into your strategy.

The best thing about Deverenians is strike denial, so you should play to that strength, not ignore it because of a character ability.

You should also have Sir Serane Myerdeth in your deck to increase your level, and 1x Mother Deiane.

Also, Carter is correct: Rellion Truebred is crap, because, again, you're looking at your deck and saying "Redundancy! Huzzah! I can afford to discard things!" I call it the "Fool's Raziel Trap." It's where you start sacrificing efficiency in favor of redundancy or meta because you have one thing in your deck that requires or gets better through discarding. And when you don't draw that one thing? When the conditions don't fall? You have redundant crap and useless meta and you lose. Don't do that. Don't be a scrub. Build a good deck that DOESN'T want Bastein to be wounded and DOESN'T carry lots of redundancy to discard to his or other abilities. Build a good deck that wins on its own and look at Bastein's abilities as afterthoughts that may or may not come into play.

-nihil


I believe you are misinterpreting the point of this deck. The deck is designed to Uber Baron Bastein.

It isn't about strike denial or redundancy, it does however revolve around Baron in his Entirety, to which I think the Rellion Truebred would be good in the deck in case I needed to pitch cards to deal an additional wound. This deck has not sacrificed efficiency in the name of redundancy, it puts items on one single man who is expected to get the job done. If you are attacking build decks in their entirety then that is a different discussion to be had, if you are speaking about this Baron specifically then this deck isn't going to fit into your criterion in the first place because you aren't expressing the fact that the deck is bad, you are just saying that redundancy is bad when the whole point of the deck is to put items on Baron Bastein as fast as possible, which means that over half of the deck WON'T be items which in turn results in never reaching peak efficiency in the first place.

Second man, the quote you are looking for is "however Baron wants to get wounded so more AC doesn't necessarily increase his survivability" Mis quote :nonono:

His react, is part of him being a Warlord. The Warlord of a deck, more often than not DEFINES the deck. Baron doesn't want to get wounded because the whole premise of the deck is for him to get wounded, he wants to get wounded because Stormbrand can grant wounds faster than Baron can suffer them, the point of the deck is for it to have synergy with Baron, but first and FOREMOST the deck is designed to put the most efficient ITEMS on the Warlord in the MOST efficient way.

You contradicted yourself by suggesting Sir Serane Myerdeth, He only increases the targets level for actions, not for items. So it can only be used for Baron's React. :|

Now on a more serious note, I believe you went off without having much of a reason to, the statement you quoted wasn't even something I typed and yeah, it is critically false, the only statement you could have seen that was remotely close to what you are trying to express had a lot more context to it than that.

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Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:01 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
Magerdanu wrote:
Nihilistiskism wrote:
You made a critically false statement:

"Batein wants to be wounded..."

:nonono:

Just because a character has the ability to remove wounds doesn't mean you want him wounded.

Just because a character has a neat ability revolving around being wounded doesn't mean you want him wounded.

Your better, overall gameplan is to build a deck that consistently does NOT fiddle with the "Wound me so I killz you!" game, and just plays it straight. You'll invariably get wounded, in which case, yay, you get to use some abilities, but it shouldn't be factored into your strategy.

The best thing about Deverenians is strike denial, so you should play to that strength, not ignore it because of a character ability.

You should also have Sir Serane Myerdeth in your deck to increase your level, and 1x Mother Deiane.

Also, Carter is correct: Rellion Truebred is crap, because, again, you're looking at your deck and saying "Redundancy! Huzzah! I can afford to discard things!" I call it the "Fool's Raziel Trap." It's where you start sacrificing efficiency in favor of redundancy or meta because you have one thing in your deck that requires or gets better through discarding. And when you don't draw that one thing? When the conditions don't fall? You have redundant crap and useless meta and you lose. Don't do that. Don't be a scrub. Build a good deck that DOESN'T want Bastein to be wounded and DOESN'T carry lots of redundancy to discard to his or other abilities. Build a good deck that wins on its own and look at Bastein's abilities as afterthoughts that may or may not come into play.

-nihil


I believe you are misinterpreting the point of this deck. The deck is designed to Uber Baron Bastein.


Nope, I understood that point just fine.

Magerdanu wrote:
It isn't about strike denial or redundancy, it does however revolve around Baron in his Entirety, to which I think the Rellion Truebred would be good in the deck in case I needed to pitch cards to deal an additional wound.


Rellion Truebred is a bad card by 4E standards, IMO, but I suppose you're free to deal wounds however you like.

Magerdanu wrote:
Second man, the quote you are looking for is "however Baron wants to get wounded so more AC doesn't necessarily increase his survivability" Mis quote :nonono:

His react, is part of him being a Warlord. The Warlord of a deck, more often than not DEFINES the deck. Baron doesn't want to get wounded because the whole premise of the deck is for him to get wounded, he wants to get wounded because Stormbrand can grant wounds faster than Baron can suffer them, the point of the deck is for it to have synergy with Baron, but first and FOREMOST the deck is designed to put the most efficient ITEMS on the Warlord in the MOST efficient way.


His react is part of him being a Warlord? I don't even understand what that means. Not every Warlord is designed well. Look at all the [Censor: Quack!] hoops you're willing to jump through just to make him playable: An x-card combo to turn him into a paladin, give him a stormbrand, and bump his skill while trying to survive to use the stormbrand of death. I understand exactly what you're trying to do; what the "point" of your deck is...I just don't understand WHY. WHY would you do this when Jodin Drac can do exactly the same thing, but equip the items more efficiently, and equip two weapons? Maybe I just don't get you, as an individual, in that you are trying to make a bad warlord good: I'm far too practically-minded for such endeavors, because I see nothing about this deck concept that Jodin Drac or Ghed Mneattor couldn't pull off more efficiently and regularly.

Magerdanu wrote:
You contradicted yourself by suggesting Sir Serane Myerdeth, He only increases the targets level for actions, not for items. So it can only be used for Baron's React. :|


Equipping an item is an action performed by a character.

Magerdanu wrote:
Now on a more serious note, I believe you went off without having much of a reason to, the statement you quoted wasn't even something I typed and yeah, it is critically false, the only statement you could have seen that was remotely close to what you are trying to express had a lot more context to it than that.


Maybe...maybe not. Honestly don't even understand this conversation, anymore. Good luck with your deck.

-nihil

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Darguth wrote:
I...agree...with Nihil

Arven wrote:
You are correct on all counts.

Yamauta wrote:
Thank you Nihil. That badass post was one of the most informative posts I've ever seen here...

Fintago wrote:
...Nihil...When someone puts a keyboard in front of you, you become the worst kind of person. I mean Christ.


Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:47 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
Quote:
His react is part of him being a Warlord? I don't even understand what that means. Not every Warlord is designed well. Look at all the [Censor: Quack!] hoops you're willing to jump through just to make him playable: An x-card combo to turn him into a paladin, give him a stormbrand, and bump his skill while trying to survive to use the stormbrand of death. I understand exactly what you're trying to do; what the "point" of your deck is...I just don't understand WHY. WHY would you do this when Jodin Drac can do exactly the same thing, but equip the items more efficiently, and equip two weapons? Maybe I just don't get you, as an individual, in that you are trying to make a bad warlord good: I'm far too practically-minded for such endeavors, because I see nothing about this deck concept that Jodin Drac or Ghed Mneattor couldn't pull off more efficiently and regularly.


Why didn't you just say this in the initial statement in the first place? For someone who is always candid you kinda beat around the bush in expressing what you really thought this time around.

here, let me explain it to you, I am a Johnny

Here is a link that can explain the types of CCG players in a broad term. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/a ... aily/mr11b

Johnny was the second profile to get a name. During Urza’s Saga development, R&D had accepted the Timmy and "tournament player" profiles, but I believed that there was an important profile missing. You see, I wasn’t really a Timmy player and I wasn’t really a tournament player. I was this missing third type. While trying to explain who he was, I stumbled into calling him "Johnny." Like Timmy, the name stuck.

Johnny is the creative gamer to whom Magic is a form of self-expression. Johnny likes to win, but he wants to win with style. It’s very important to Johnny that he win on his own terms. As such, it’s important to Johnny that he’s using his own deck. Playing Magic is an opportunity for Johnny to show off his creativity.

Johnny likes a challenge. Johnny enjoys winning with cards that no one else wants to use. He likes making decks that win in innovative ways. What sets Johnny apart from the other profiles is that Johnny enjoys deckbuilding as much as (or more than) he enjoys playing. Johnny loves the cool interactions of the cards. He loves combo decks. Johnny is happiest when he’s exploring uncharted territory.

Like Timmy, Johnny cares more about the quality of his wins than the quantity. For example, let's say Johnny builds a new deck that has a neat but difficult way to win. He plays ten games and manages to get his deck to do its thing… once. Johnny walks away happy.

Each set, R&D designs some cards for Johnny. Johnny cards are cards that have unique effects that Johnny can build cool decks around. In general, Johnny cards are the kind of cards with real potential. (Some of them will eventually excite Spike.) Good examples of Johnny cards are Holistic Wisdom, Radiate, and Battle of Wits.

You are Spike. Spike isn't supposed to sound insulting, but this is what you remind me of when you talk about decks in general.

Although Spike was the first profile R&D was aware of, it was the last to get a name. In fact, "Spike" is the only nickname I didn’t come up with. None of R&D did. You see for years, R&D just called them Timmy, Johnny, and "the tournament player." But at some point we explained the three profiles to the Magic brand team. They felt the tournament player needed a name, so they named him. Why "Spike?" The best I’ve been able to figure out is they felt Spike sounded like a serious, play-to-win-type name.

Spike is the competitive player. Spike plays to win. Spike enjoys winning. To accomplish this, Spike will play whatever the best deck is. Spike will copy decks off the Internet. Spike will borrow other players’ decks. To Spike, the thrill of Magic is the adrenalin rush of competition. Spike enjoys the stimulation of outplaying the opponent and the glory of victory.

Spike cares more about the quantity of wins than the quality. For example, Spike plays ten games and wins nine of them. If Spike feels he should have won the tenth, he walks away unhappy.

R&D makes plenty of cards for Spike. Unlike the Timmy and Johnny cards, Spike cards are relatively easy to make. Spike plays what wins, so if R&D makes a card good enough, Spike will play it. Good examples of Spike cards are Call of the Herd, Shadowmage Infiltrator, and Fact or Fiction.



That being said, I like your, INPUT. I don't care how you come off or if you are suddenly angry or if you are pulling out your infinite wisdom to bash me over the head because I am new on the scene, because TO ME, I get to talk to the best at something , to get People like you and Richard to teach me about the game because to ME, It has infinite worth and is always interesting when I can get tidbits of experience from people who are better at the game than I am.

I genuinely appreciate everything that gets expressed on these forums because I really enjoy Warlord.

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Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:56 pm
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Post Re: Uber Baron Bastein (Ancients)
I think with his abilities, he's best as a front rank WL. Call me crazy. His stats are fair, definitely not good, but better than Ablung. He has a pseudo 4th hp which lets you play trips of stuff you really want to see and ditch if you get wounded. He gets to take out pleebs for free opt. Unleash the hounds, inquisitor, and slide into the front on the santa-mobile. Three Obliterate and No Prisoners! can win games by themselves. Dorra will aid you in learning Spanish and Contesting Titles. You're better off even with.. shudders.. Brymin, but I think it'd be better than trying to uber with him. Third decree of the game being Obliterate can really hurt a lot of decks.

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~ 2012 Kentucky Halloween Tournament Top Elf ~

nilonka wrote:
there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!

Kerebrus wrote:
Woodrow, your jank may have crossed the line this time.


Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:33 pm
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