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Dying, Killed and Death Reacts 
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Head of Insanity Division
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Post Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
AKA Cyrus Netheryn and how I learned to stop worrying and love the necro-bomb.

Cyrus
React: After Cyrus enters play, kill a Level X Elf: Put an Undead of Level X or lower into play from your discard pile.

Skyyrek
React: Before Skyyrek dies, remove him from the game: Retrieve a lower Level Undead Elf from your discard pile and put it into play. This action may be performed while stunned.

Dark Monolith
Before Monolith is killed: Reveal all face down cards attached to Monolith. Put up to 7 Levels of revealed Elves into play, if possible. Remove Monolith and all other revealed cards from the game.

Note on wording - 'before X is killed' and 'before X dies' are equivalent, as are the past-tense versions. There is no difference between a react to someone dying and another to someone being killed.
If the timing is 'before', then the character has not left play. If it is 'after', then the character is in the discard pile. There is no timing between death and discard - you cannot be 'after death' and still in play. (( Old cards that refer to this timing were long ago mass-errated to be 'before death' instead. ))

First scenario:
Skyyrek in play, multiple Bone Golems in the discard.
I play Cyrus, which triggers his react.
I declare he is performing his react.
Cyrus kills Skyyrek, which triggers Skyyrek's react.
I interrupt Cyrus' action to declare Skyyrek is performing his react.
I remove Skyyrek from the game, retrieve a Bone Golem, and put it into play.
Skyyrek's react is resolved, so I return to Cyrus' action.
Skyyrek never died, so the cost is unpaid.
Cyrus' action is canceled.

Corollary: Any action that depends on a character dying as part of the cost will be canceled (or simply won't be triggered) if Skyyrek performs his react.
Bloodthirsty, Brymin's react, Leveled!, etc.

Second scenario:
Dark Monolith with a quartet of face-down attached cards, two copies of Cyrus, another Dark Monolith, and Severed of Spirit.
Dark Monolith is killed (by wounds from a strike), which triggers his text.
I (have to) declare his static effect, interrupting the strike.
I reveal all of DM's face-down attached cards - Cyrus, Cyrus, DM, and SoS.
I choose up to seven levels of Elves - just one Cyrus.
I put Cyrus 1 into play in my third rank, which triggers his react.
I declare he is performing his react.
Cyrus 1 kills Dark Monolith, which triggers its text.
I (have to) interrupt Cyrus 1's action to declare his static effect.
I re-reveal all of DM's face-down attached cards - Cyrus, DM, and SoS. (( Just because I previously revealed them does not mean I cannot do so again - they are still considered attached at this point. ))
I choose up to seven levels of Elves - the other Cyrus.
I put Cyrus 2 into play in my third rank, which triggers his react.
I declare he is performing his react.
Cyrus 2 kills Dark Monolith, which triggers its text.
I (have to) interrupt Cyrus 2's action to declare his static effect.
I re-reveal all of DM's face-down attached cards - DM, and SoS.
I choose up to seven levels of Elves - I cannot choose the other DM (it's Unique and this DM is still in play), so I choose the SoS.
I put Severed of Spirit into play in my fifth rank. No reacts are triggered.
I proceed with DM's static effect, removing both it and the attached DM from the game.
I attempt to proceed with Cyrus 2's react, but the cost has not been paid. It is canceled.
I attempt to proceed with DM's static effect from his second death, but he is no longer in play. It is canceled.
I attempt to proceed with Cyrus 1's react, but the cost has not been paid. It is canceled.
I attempt to proceed with DM's static effect from his first death, but he is no longer in play. It is canceled.
The strike that inflicted the final wound upon DM resolves. No reacts to killing a character can be played, since DM removed itself from the game before dying.

Apologies for the lack of formatting, but there you go. Enjoy.
-VIC

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Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:15 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
Thank you sir :thumbsup:

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Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:21 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
I think that wins the Oscar for Best Rules-Related Post of 2009.

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Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
T3chno wrote:
I think that wins the Oscar for Best Rules-Related Post of 2009.

:agree:
That is a very nice post and exactly what I was looking for after that annoyingly long thread about the monolith.

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Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:28 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
Thank you very much Vic.

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Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:14 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
Bravo Vic! We now return you to your regularly-scheduled elf-hating, already in progress :wink:

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Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:39 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
I'm so glad this is now officially ruled upon. Thank you Rules Team. :thumbsup:

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Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:24 am
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
Thank you for all the work to make this very nice post. But with all the cancellations I am not sure what has ended up in play.

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Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:39 am
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
Quote:
Second scenario:
Dark Monolith with a quartet of face-down attached cards, two copies of Cyrus, another Dark Monolith, and Severed of Spirit.
Dark Monolith is killed (by wounds from a strike), which triggers his text.
I (have to) declare his static effect, interrupting the strike.
I reveal all of DM's face-down attached cards - Cyrus, Cyrus, DM, and SoS.
I choose up to seven levels of Elves - just one Cyrus.
I put Cyrus 1 into play in my third rank, which triggers his react.
I declare he is performing his react.
Cyrus 1 kills Dark Monolith, which triggers its text.
I (have to) interrupt Cyrus 1's action to declare his static effect.
I re-reveal all of DM's face-down attached cards - Cyrus, DM, and SoS. (( Just because I previously revealed them does not mean I cannot do so again - they are still considered attached at this point. ))
I choose up to seven levels of Elves - the other Cyrus.
I put Cyrus 2 into play in my third rank, which triggers his react.
I declare he is performing his react.
Cyrus 2 kills Dark Monolith, which triggers its text.
I (have to) interrupt Cyrus 2's action to declare his static effect.
I re-reveal all of DM's face-down attached cards - DM, and SoS.
I choose up to seven levels of Elves - I cannot choose the other DM (it's Unique and this DM is still in play), so I choose the SoS.
I put Severed of Spirit into play in my fifth rank. No reacts are triggered.
I proceed with DM's static effect, removing both it and the attached DM from the game.
I attempt to proceed with Cyrus 2's react, but the cost has not been paid. It is canceled.
I attempt to proceed with DM's static effect from his second death, but he is no longer in play. It is canceled.
I attempt to proceed with Cyrus 1's react, but the cost has not been paid. It is canceled.
I attempt to proceed with DM's static effect from his first death, but he is no longer in play. It is canceled.
The strike that inflicted the final wound upon DM resolves. No reacts to killing a character can be played, since DM removed itself from the game before dying.


Bolded the parts where characters go into play.

You could get more into play, by playing some characters before Cyrus each time. but the jist is still there. The original DM is removed from play, along with the remaining cards attached to it (all of the original ones excluding the 3 put into play).


Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:16 am
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
Huzzah... that really clears up a lot of questions that I was mulling about today and going into GenCon. I figure that me and M.T.U. will make a push... so I was totally lost in thought about what could have made the binding moment for me. Thanks for the heads up and I'll appreciate the whole process of Elf Recursion done by the book. I just might print out a copy to keep in my back pocket so that there will be no arguments at my matches on Saturday. ^_^;

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Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
After a recent tournament in which i ran galem-reth i was informed about a ruling on my Bal-Benoth's. I was told that it was ruled that since bal-benoths need to sacrafice a thrall to enter play was a static ability and not a react, i was not allowed to use any reacts with the thrall being sacrificed. I then angrily removed the 2 balbenoths from my deck exclaiming how the ruling had utterly destroyed any potential the card had...
looking through my cards again recently i saw Raging Hungerer whose requirment to sacrifice a thrall per turn is also a static ability, so does the same ruling apply?

summary:
1. does the same rulling apply to hungerer
2. whats the thinking behind the rulling? cause im gonna rip up all these cards, i need my thralls reacts...

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Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:41 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
1: yes it applies for the hungerer. though i find his cost is much less than bal-baenoth

2: the ruling is that it is not considered a cost for performing an action, more the effect of the action. i agree its dumb but that is the wording of the cards. I still think they all should have been after being killed by one of your characters, but alas i don't think design forsaw the problem.

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Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:51 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
I originally coastered Bal because of this ruling, however, he is a wonderful meat shield and beat stick that later on proved to go right back into my decks.


Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:58 am
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
Foxfire wrote:
I originally coastered Bal because of this ruling, however, he is a wonderful meat shield and beat stick that later on proved to go right back into my decks.


this i partially agree with.

with the right thralls bal is totally worth it. For example Duanna is quite nice, as well as the devoted.

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Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Dying, Killed and Death Reacts
devlukelorian wrote:
with the right thralls bal is totally worth it. For example Duanna is quite nice, as well as the devoted.


personally i feel like they should just fix it =(
*wink wink nudge nudge ;)*

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If it's purple I've done it. "I'm the RI purple proffesional ^_^"
I'm pretty sure I win the local award for most frequently made fun of for favorite faction.
(although meatloafman is a close second cause he plays dwarfs =P)


Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:13 pm
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