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Ancients (Legacy) FreeKs - Am I doing it right? 
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Post Ancients (Legacy) FreeKs - Am I doing it right?
Here's an in-progresss Ferris Bachman I've put together:

Start:
Spencer Latham x2, Aida
Angus Hammerfall, Scarlett
Ferris Bachman

Maindecked:
Ferris Bachman x2
Sipho Hamisi x3
Roona x3
Selai Yscar x3
Rolando x3
Corten Lye x3 ?
Tavon x1

Items:
Altus' Cloak x3
Cloudracer x2
Lifedrainer x1
Sandtiger's Fang x1
Heartstrings x1
Arbalest x1
Mask of Past Lives x1

Dungeons:
Baraxton's Graveyard x3

Actions:
Song of Strength x3
Pull the Strings x1
Veiled Passing x1
Exhaustion x1
Steady Aim x1
Prey on the Hunter x1
Counterspell x1
Whirlwind Attack x1
Passing The Knives x1
Bandage x1
Final Trickery x1

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Last edited by Oremm on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:23 am, edited 11 times in total.



Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:54 am
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
I feel like you need a common theme somewhere...seems a tad all over the place. Also, you should consider taking more advantage of having multiple warlords/easily played level 5 guys/warlords that are going to die. Baraxton's Graveyard and a Tavon or two are some examples there (don't use Maxmilian, his wording makes you loose when he dies). Also also, it might be fun to find a way to take advantage of Ferris's order. Things to make people miss you, reacts when they do, consequences for attacking you, etc.

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Last edited by slugman on Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:03 am
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
Both really good calls, and they remind me of other stuff at the same time. I haven't ever played with the massive open card pool, it's easy to overlook stuff.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that this is for Legacy format, which has a stricter ban list than Ancients.

I like the "all over the place/hot mess" approach. Perhaps I should go a little further into the "toolbox" direction? Updating decklist as I go.

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Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:09 am
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
I just realized I'm inept at card tags...

The random one of of Ar'bruz can be fun here, just to have the potential of 5 warlords at once...

Spirit Singing would be good, Bardic Knowledge could be fun, maybe with a Light

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Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
Updated. I'm going to run this decklist a couple of times to see what I like/don't like.

EDIT: I was nervous about all these x1's...but things just work. The deck as posted now plays the way I wanted it to - it adapts. I can pick and choose what to apply to the situation I find myself in. Thanks slugman for the reminders on the Graveyard (oh, the ABUSE!) and Tavon.

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Last edited by Oremm on Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:55 pm
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
I dunno. Here's a list for Rogue Cav:

3 Ferris Bachman
1 Baqbou Umbala
1 Viktor Amak
3 Jiyacin Fret
3 Jackals of Mourn
3 Roona
3 Geraint the Grin
3 Blade Dancer
2 Aisiat
1 Toren Yscar
1 Devourer
25

3 Exhaustion
3 Pull the Strings
3 Incentives
3 Song of Strength
2 Passing the Knives
2 Spirit Singing
16

3 Blacksteel Dagger
3 Portable Hole
3 Caer's Stone
9

I don't know if it's any good, though. I feel like Song of Strength and Incentives play well together. I feel like Passing the Knives seems good with all the Rogues. I feel like Portable Hole might be the best Steed, although Cloudracer might edge it out. Pull the Strings plus forcibly stun someone forward plus Bladedancer seems silly.

Maybe you just play Urshambi and recurr Pull the Strings?

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Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:20 pm
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
Woodrow wrote:
I dunno. Here's a list for Rogue Cav:

3 Ferris Bachman
1 Baqbou Umbala
1 Viktor Amak
3 Jiyacin Fret
3 Jackals of Mourn
3 Roona
3 Geraint the Grin
3 Blade Dancer
2 Aisiat
1 Toren Yscar
1 Devourer
25

3 Exhaustion
3 Pull the Strings
3 Incentives
3 Song of Strength
2 Passing the Knives
2 Spirit Singing
16

3 Blacksteel Dagger
3 Portable Hole
3 Caer's Stone
9

I don't know if it's any good, though. I feel like Song of Strength and Incentives play well together. I feel like Passing the Knives seems good with all the Rogues. I feel like Portable Hole might be the best Steed, although Cloudracer might edge it out. Pull the Strings plus forcibly stun someone forward plus Bladedancer seems silly.

Maybe you just play Urshambi and recurr Pull the Strings?


I originally ran 3x Pull the Strings, but I ended up with too many spend-orders - which I would worry about with Caer's Stone in the mix also. Both Toren Yscar and Viktor Amak are banned in Legacy, so they are no-go. As for the list - if I was going Rogue Cav, things would certainly look a whole lot different!

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Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
Woodrow wrote:
I dunno. Here's a list for Rogue Cav:

3 Ferris Bachman
1 Baqbou Umbala
1 Viktor Amak
3 Jiyacin Fret
3 Jackals of Mourn
3 Roona
3 Geraint the Grin -> 3x Selai Yscar
3 Blade Dancer -> 2x Blade Dancer, 1x Rolando
2 Aisiat -> 1x Aisiat, 1x Rolando
1 Toren Yscar
1 Devourer -> Rolando
25

My gut says that's an awful lot of beef to stack on the fragile FreeK start. What do you do if you lose init and get blitzed? I run Selai and Rolando not just for their reacts, but also to help build/rebuild ranks.

Woodrow wrote:
3 Exhaustion -> 2x Exhaustion, 1x Thimblerig
3 Pull the Strings -> 2x Pull the Strings, 1x Thimblerig
3 Incentives -> 2x Incentives, 1x Thimblerig
3 Song of Strength
2 Passing the Knives
2 Spirit Singing -> 2x Spring the Trap
16

Way too much spending for stuff that ISN'T "kill the enemy." I would drop Exhaustion down to 2x, same with Pull the Strings and Incentives. (In 4e I found that Incentives was great, but a third copy almost always got in the way of something else.) That opens up room for 3x Thimblerig which is both movement and tempo. I would also cut Spirit Singing at this point, since a more mobile army won't need it. I might test Spring the Trap in that slot.
Woodrow wrote:
3 Blacksteel Dagger
3 Portable Hole
3 Caer's Stone -> 2x Caer's Stone, 1x Shadowborn Harness
9

3x on the stone is overkill. 2 should do it - enough to draw it and get it into most games, not enough to make it clog your hand. A single Shadowborn Harness though, that would be fun.

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Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:59 am
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
Yeah. I don't think that was a great Ferris list. I've actually never sat down and tackled the Bachman Beast.

Yeah, Pull the Strings should come out. I didn't notice that "the Grin" wasn't a Bard. He looks like a bard.

Cear's Stone is something you'd want to draw early, I think, in a list like this that tries to drop meat into the fray. It's not a bad early action play. The bonus goes up for each one you have and you will need to hold ranks to drop characters anyway. At its worst, it's an item that straight grants +7 stealth. At its best behind an army of 3hp rogues, it gets more reasonable.

Exhaustion is really good. I don't think the arguments end in either direction regarding this card. It will win you games. It will seem underwhelming at times (usually only if you're already losing by a great deal).

Anyway, rather than try to support that bad list, let's actually remember that we're playing FreeKs and maybe look to one of their strengths:

3 Llyr Militia
3 Brother Dominy
2 Spencer Latham
1 Viktor Amak
1 Baqbou Umbala
3 Ferris Bachman
3 Barrett Yscar
3 Nellia Yscar
2 Rolando
2 Jack Casey
1 Toren Yscar
1 Sir Thomas of Celinar
25

3 Exhaustion
3 Incentives
3 Song of Strength
3 Reckless Leap
2 Rescue
2 Spirit Singing
16

3 Portable Hole
2 Black Moss
2 Cear's Stone
1 Alliance Standard
1 Blood Hawk
9

There we go. I'm a little more confident in this one. You've got multiple lines of play from shoring up into a cavalry plan to dicing your opponent with some early Spencers and quickly shipping bodies South. You can really water-slide Yscars forward and Portable Hole is definitely their favorite Steed. You have Baqbou/Nellia which is always nice.. come to think of it.. 10 movement cards might be a bit too much.. Maybe we just need more threats. Anyway, you have access to fair-sized bonuses between Brother, Standard (which might just be unplayably bad), Singing, self-buffing characters, and Incentives. More importantly, you have the speed for them to be relevant. I think this is the list I was looking for, but tried to focus too much on Ferris's multiple-copies ability. I think dodging Golden Guns and putting a decent-size body in rank 3 is good enough, though.

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nilonka wrote:
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Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
Yep, that looks much more solid. Intimidating, even.

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Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:06 pm
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
I think we just need to batten down the hatches and it'll be playable. I'll revisit and see what I can do.

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nilonka wrote:
there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!


Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Ferris Bachman - Am I doing it right?
R.I.P., Ferris. I got completely ragdolled this weekend. Mostly because I was too slow, partly because the environment threw things at me that I was not prepared for. Sticking with FreeKs, I'm now working on something faster:

Beastmaster Eladric
Eloise x2
Leon Yscar x2, Aida

Elissa Yscar x3
Selai Yscar x3
Rolando x3
Gladys Tynron x3
Leonora x3
Mairead x3
Aida

Mass Blessing x3
Retribution x3
Mud Slick x3
Minor Miracle x2
Final Blessing x2
Sudden Gale x2
Exhaustion x2
Veiled Passing x2

Gnarled Club x1
Teufeltiger's Lies x2
Ring of the Savant x1
Signon's Armor x2

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Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:53 am
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Post Re: Ancients (Legacy) FreeKs - Am I doing it right?
I'm not feeling the pushback theme. Chase has an excellent higher-level cavalry posted like three topics below this.

The problem with your list is you have almost no way to deal consistent damage and you're not fast, either. So I see this flopping as well. I don't think Chase's list has faired very well in play testing, but I think it's a good big cavalry version. I might go for something faster, myself with Ursala, Jack, Elissa, and Barrett and Nellia topping off my curve.

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nilonka wrote:
there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!


Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:35 am
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Post Re: Ancients (Legacy) FreeKs - Am I doing it right?
Woodrow wrote:
The problem with your list is you have almost no way to deal consistent damage and you're not fast, either. So I see this flopping as well. I don't think Chase's list has faired very well in play testing, but I think it's a good big cavalry version. I might go for something faster, myself with Ursala, Jack, Elissa, and Barrett and Nellia topping off my curve.


I'm confused. How are the big guns (levels 3 and 4) faster than characters who strike the turn they enter play? Half the time I have Rolando target himself to get to rank 1 instantly.

Also confused: If chase's Big Cav isn't doing well in testing, why is it good?

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Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:56 am
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Post Re: Ancients (Legacy) FreeKs - Am I doing it right?
Well, there's no Yscarite Sentry and no Brother Dominy, so you're hoping to play Rolando and ship him forward when they don't have a strike available. Okay, that will happen sometimes. But let's say he gets there without dying or being exhausted: Two +1's if you didn't draw your Mass Bless is what you're looking at. Not irrelevant but not impressive. Your starting army has no strikes in the second rank, just blank characters if you don't draw the Mud Slicks. The Leonara combo with Maeread seems really narrow. You could always ready one of your starting characters, but Leon swinging a single +6 with a DC 14 attached to it over the course of two Orders just isn't worth playing Maeried. When Leon becomes Leonara the scenario brightens, but by how much?

I think Chase's deck isn't far off an optimal heavy Cav version. Roc form and Nellia are excellent together. Baqbou is great. But yeah, when I've played that deck against Chase's other decks or decks of my own, it's never done well.

So I think the better route is to be fast either going with Xeanara, Xianthia, Ursala, Jack, Roland/Rolando, Elissa, etc. and lots of readying and buffing, or maybe a weenie list could be a thing. I haven't checked the spoiler since I'm posting from my phone. Weenie would depend on what low level Lycans you have access to, but wouldn't it be a mostly worse version of Adarymy. Like Adarymy if she couldn't play all the good level 1's but had access to Mass Blessing?

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nilonka wrote:
there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!


Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:12 pm
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