View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:42 am



Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open) 
Author Message
Outer Circle
Outer Circle
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:35 pm
Posts: 250
Post Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
Before I begin, I have been working on Trench for the past six or seven months, moving from decklist to decklist in the ever challenging quest to make him more than just "Viable".

Image

The latest rendition is a mixed potion Uber with an emphasis on Duri Earthwalker alongside the Rage Collar and the Alholland Bramble.

Start: 6
1x Trench
2x Will
3x Defiance

Deck: 44

Characters: 19
1x Door to the World
3x Supply
1x Drea Nexus
2x Balance
2x Korin Blackstone
2x Mountain
3x Strength
3x Duri Earthwalker
2x Nepheline Gargoyle

Items: 25
1x Gloves of Grasping
1x Mixed Potion
1x Giant Strength Potion
1x Glyph of Fate
1x Potion of Blurring
1x Gloves of Mercy
1x Kor's Banner
1x Vorpal Blade
1x Sarakian Gloves
1x Alholland Bramble
1x Rage Collar
3x Nodwick
3x Drac Mail
1x Ceremonial Shield
1x Amulet of Waking
1x Fists of Kor
1x Red Steel Gauntlets
3x Heavy Charger
1x Ablung's Quickmail

_________________
"In life we knew courage and in death regret, never fear that which once was, for what once was, will be nevermore, forevermore." -Anon


Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:43 pm
Profile
Command Staff
Command Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3518
Location: Usherhaus
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
is this your list because this consists of the majority of your card pool?

_________________
Order of the Doomed Liver "Pale Ale Rider"

kthx.

Malexin wrote:
There is a food chain. I am on top of it.

Malexin wrote:
...seed your tomato, for the love of god, seed your tomatoes...


Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:18 pm
Profile WWW
Outer Circle
Outer Circle
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:35 pm
Posts: 250
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
No, it isn't. :thumbsup:

_________________
"In life we knew courage and in death regret, never fear that which once was, for what once was, will be nevermore, forevermore." -Anon


Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:47 pm
Profile
Outer Circle
Outer Circle
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:35 pm
Posts: 250
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
So is the deck just garbage? I'm open to those willing to play online or make suggestions.

_________________
"In life we knew courage and in death regret, never fear that which once was, for what once was, will be nevermore, forevermore." -Anon


Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:22 pm
Profile
Command Staff
Command Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3518
Location: Usherhaus
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
I think Paul (Nihil) said it, in that Trench is just a bad warlord. You spend him for very little effect. In the environment he is supposed to be played in, Open or Ancients) Riposte is the only benefit he really gives, as the +X to AC does not matter, and if it is Riposte you want, there are way better solutions in the form of Armor, Actions and Characters. So, the only way to make him "good" (which is not really possible) is to make a deck that really does not care if he is your warlord or if Frost, or whomever else you decide is your warlord. That being said...

His spend order sucks in the numbers it gives you. So you need to do it multiple times. Find ways to do that and the exploit the high AC and Riposte it gives. Things that force your opponent to attack and miss you so you can hit them back with some grand effect. Pit Fight, Dueling Saber, Ablung's Quickmail, or something to that effect. Arla Favorsight might find a home here. And that might just be about it. I wish you luck, but I think you are chasing good money after bad. But that never stopped me from building janky bad decks. If thoughts arise about this guy, I will post here.

_________________
Order of the Doomed Liver "Pale Ale Rider"

kthx.

Malexin wrote:
There is a food chain. I am on top of it.

Malexin wrote:
...seed your tomato, for the love of god, seed your tomatoes...


Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:43 am
Profile WWW
Inner Circle
Inner Circle
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 2968
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
So I didn't look at your decklist and almost posted something with similar elements. I think you're barking up the correct tree in Alholland Bramble and Duri Earthwalker. Rage Collar doesn't seem like a bad inclusion at that point, either.

Changes I'd make:

- Assuming this is for Ancients, you want -2 Supply due to his restriction (Nodwick has the same restriction). This means you abandon the Potions and Glyphs and stuffs. In his stead, I'd include a Toren Yscar and maybe a Salvage, Fridgeir, or the third Korin.

- For your start, I wonder if Hymn would be of any use over Will. 18AC Defiances seem decent.

- Balance, Mountain, and to a lesser extent, Drea Nexus seem a little off. Balance says "I care about Speed" to me, which I don't think you really do. If you play against Etra or stun tech in a lot of your games, then he's alright. Mountain is odd to me. Drea Nexus seems ok with Rage Collar, but wouldn't you just want a Gauntlet on that character anyway.

- I'd personally focus on making your front rank a Phalanx. You can try to get your front rank to the point of being 2-4 characters with 30AC and 3-4HP. I'd consider stuff like Trade Routes and Order of Battle (though using something like this might warrant a starting Viktor Amak). Trade Routes also plays well with Supply and Nodwick.

So basically I'd take out the Potion Plan, stick with Duri and Bramble, and use your extra slots for making your front rank full of Drac Mail, Antlers of the Stag (could make an appearance on Destruction/Korin/others), Shield-wielding fighters with healing back-up who are looking to hold the line while Duri or Destruction come forward with a Bramble. Also, I'd probably play a Bodyguard since you're so slow.

_________________
Image
2012 Kentucky Halloween Tournament - Top Elf
2014 Jeremiah Memorial Event - 2nd & Top FreeK
2017 GenCon Ancients Event - 4th & Top Elf
"We're just like Kevin Bacon!" - Anton Cyldragen
nilonka wrote:
there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!


Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:49 am
Profile
Command Staff
Command Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3518
Location: Usherhaus
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
Then Woodrow, would you not suggest using another fighter warlord? How is anything you suggest (ab)using Trench's spend order?

_________________
Order of the Doomed Liver "Pale Ale Rider"

kthx.

Malexin wrote:
There is a food chain. I am on top of it.

Malexin wrote:
...seed your tomato, for the love of god, seed your tomatoes...


Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:24 pm
Profile WWW
Outer Circle
Outer Circle
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:35 pm
Posts: 250
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
Trench's selling point for me was the fact that the spend order is army wide and from any rank. I have toyed with making him a cleric via the belt of champions and while its an interesting direction its always felt too gimicky to be viable.

_________________
"In life we knew courage and in death regret, never fear that which once was, for what once was, will be nevermore, forevermore." -Anon


Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:02 pm
Profile
Inner Circle
Inner Circle
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 2968
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
He's hard to justify over Xod, for sure. I think it's that AC matters even more once you get to a certain point. 13 isn't much more than 10, but 23 is a lot better than 20. Ancients numbers often make high AC irrelevant, but if you put most of your eggs in that basket, you could achieve a relevant AC on multiple characters, I think.

_________________
Image
2012 Kentucky Halloween Tournament - Top Elf
2014 Jeremiah Memorial Event - 2nd & Top FreeK
2017 GenCon Ancients Event - 4th & Top Elf
"We're just like Kevin Bacon!" - Anton Cyldragen
nilonka wrote:
there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!


Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:43 pm
Profile
Outer Circle
Outer Circle
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:35 pm
Posts: 250
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
One of the problems I encounter with Trench is the lack of Riposte among the Dwarves, few Dwarf characters have Riposte stock, or even really have synergy with the mechanic due to low skill. There are a few exceptions like Mountain or Duri Earthwalker and I run multiples of those.

I keep envisioning Gate + Hero's for the +5ac to the front rank, while it sounds nice, I find that it falls apart too easily, even with defend and the loads of Dwarven wound removal.

_________________
"In life we knew courage and in death regret, never fear that which once was, for what once was, will be nevermore, forevermore." -Anon


Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:42 pm
Profile
Command Staff
Command Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3518
Location: Usherhaus
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
Your logic that his effect is army wide is not unfounded until you realize it is making a front rank bonus army wide. Then it becomes junk. Weenie blitz seemsv viable but with no way to increase wounds delt or atk bonus with his innate ability, he looks like junk. So, again, he could be a fun warlord to build a wacky deck around, but you have to find a way to ready the crap out of him and then exploit it. And the moving parts become a liability. Go jank. Don't take him so serious.

Edit: have some fun, the set Eye of the Storm had items that could only be used by characters with certain levels of atk, ac, and/or skill. Have fun with them, especially with Supply

_________________
Order of the Doomed Liver "Pale Ale Rider"

kthx.

Malexin wrote:
There is a food chain. I am on top of it.

Malexin wrote:
...seed your tomato, for the love of god, seed your tomatoes...


Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:21 pm
Profile WWW
Lava Shark
Lava Shark
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:00 pm
Posts: 9425
Location: Texas
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
*cough*

Dwarves have [Censor: poo] skill. Giving characters with [Censor: poo] skill Riposte is hoping for positive outcomes on two unlikely variables:

a) melee strike misses

b) dwarf makes riposte check

you could further that to c) dwarf hits with its melee strike

the +3 AC is more or less meaningless.

Trying to uber is slow unless you are Xod or a Rogue.

Trying to blitz isn't viable unless you have support from the Warlord on that front (the gargoyles or Xod comes to mind, again)

-nihil

_________________
Darguth wrote:
I...agree...with Nihil

Arven wrote:
You are correct on all counts.

Yamauta wrote:
Thank you Nihil. That badass post was one of the most informative posts I've ever seen here...

Fintago wrote:
...Nihil...When someone puts a keyboard in front of you, you become the worst kind of person. I mean Christ.


Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:27 am
Profile WWW
Lava Shark
Lava Shark
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:00 pm
Posts: 9425
Location: Texas
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
P.S. @Shields: Frost is an amazing Warlord. Just not in Open. Ancients he kicks ass.

-nihil

_________________
Darguth wrote:
I...agree...with Nihil

Arven wrote:
You are correct on all counts.

Yamauta wrote:
Thank you Nihil. That badass post was one of the most informative posts I've ever seen here...

Fintago wrote:
...Nihil...When someone puts a keyboard in front of you, you become the worst kind of person. I mean Christ.


Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:29 am
Profile WWW
Command Staff
Command Staff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 3518
Location: Usherhaus
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
@Paul My example of Frost was just the first Dwarf Fighter Warlord that came to mind. I have lost a few times in Ancients to him

I think maybe Trench was good when he was printed. I can't remember but I think you could run multiple warlords in a deck then. I was playing then, but my memory has failed me as to when they dropped that rule. Change of Leadership was changed around then, too, so maybe I can look in the spoiler and find out.

_________________
Order of the Doomed Liver "Pale Ale Rider"

kthx.

Malexin wrote:
There is a food chain. I am on top of it.

Malexin wrote:
...seed your tomato, for the love of god, seed your tomatoes...


Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:59 am
Profile WWW
Inner Circle
Inner Circle
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 2968
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Post Re: Trench's AOE Toolbox (Open)
I think the weakest part of Trench is that his armor appears to be made out of Cheezits. You really need Doritos or better if you're going to compete in Ancients.

_________________
Image
2012 Kentucky Halloween Tournament - Top Elf
2014 Jeremiah Memorial Event - 2nd & Top FreeK
2017 GenCon Ancients Event - 4th & Top Elf
"We're just like Kevin Bacon!" - Anton Cyldragen
nilonka wrote:
there are five people on this website anymore, Woodrow: me you, Nihil, Wendy, and they guy who loves Trench as a warlord. You can't afford to disagree. WE NEED THESE TOURNEY KITS!!!!!


Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:04 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.